tie down?

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whisperer
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tie down?

Postby whisperer » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:23 pm

My geldings head is fine with me, its a little high and he does collect a little bit when I ask, do any of you guys recommend a tie down for barrel racing? I read it helps balance? and when we go around the barrel his nose is sticking up.

rtees3
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Re: tie down?

Postby rtees3 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 7:25 pm

oh no :shock: this can of worms is being opened again!

dblx
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Re: tie down?

Postby dblx » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:38 pm

we are talking about balance okay .well just a queri.If your horse has his head tied to his knees how is he going to balance himself.obviously if he is sticking his nose out thats how he balances himself. I could never see the point of them myself.Some will tell you they have to push into it to balance "BALLS" I say .Never used one in my life other than just a training aid for about 20 minutes or so . Another reason could be too much bit why he,s stickin his nose out. Ever see a race horse with a tie down on . I don,t think so . They have to put their nose out for balance . Commen sense
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jb
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Re: tie down?

Postby jb » Tue Nov 08, 2011 10:42 pm

To each their own!!!
The only thing I can reccommend is that you try your gelding with a tie-down and see if it works for the two of you. Do this with an experienced trainer if you and your gelding aren't experienced or knowledgeable with tie-downs.

rope-2-win
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Re: tie down?

Postby rope-2-win » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:13 am

If hes sticking his nose up, hes hollowing his back and hes not going to get his hind end under himself around the turn. The tie down can help keep his nose down and keep him more balanced and get his hind end under him around the turn. Some horses naturally can do this and dont need a tie down, but some do need a tie down, see Sherry Cervis world champ horse. Tie downs are obviously not the devil here when the best in the world are using them. Using them properly is the main thing, alot of people use them and they are way too loose. When your horse is standing calmly you should be able to push the tie down strap to touch his neck just below his throat latch for somewhat of a guideline if that makes sense. It really depends on the horse and how he is built how tight you want the tie down. Hope that helps! A tie downs not a magic fix by all means, but it can help your horse out. One thing - I would not recommend a tie down if you are running your horse in a ring snaffle. JMO but i think a tiedown should only be put on with a bit that has leverage and some type of curb strap to keep the horse from bracing against the tie down.
If you ever get a chance go to a bit clinic put on by a known bit maker. I went to an elliot clinic once and its amazing to learn how different bits and headsetter stuff actually work.

Sailor
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Re: tie down?

Postby Sailor » Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:53 am

Or you could teach your horse how to round its back and give to its face, while still driving forward.

della
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Re: tie down?

Postby della » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:39 pm

Depending on the horse a tiedown can truly help my gelding wheres one he is light in his face collects really well but gets kinda strung out in his turns. He had issues with his head and colection and had a very tight tiedown when i bought him as a 4 yearold blown up rope horse. I can run him without one and hes good just not great. It is a very usuful tool if used properly it was not designed and should not be used to tie a horses head between his knees. A calf horse/heel horse uses it to stop a head horse to have something to pullagainst and barrel horses use them to sitdown and get through thier turns. If your horse needs it use it! If it doesent then dont.
And to some others dont be so negative about them when used properly in the right cirstamces they are a great tool.
PS stingray has one.....

Sailor
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Re: tie down?

Postby Sailor » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:43 pm

Sorry,
I am Just use to the Reining, Cowhorse pen...where the horses are still required to do Huge Manuvers but still balance themselves without any aids.
What it comes down to is training.

dblx
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Re: tie down?

Postby dblx » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:11 pm

Exactly .If they need one as some say (which I think is bull) then take em back to the training pen . What I,ve seen mostly is that because Joe Blow has one on his horse I should have one on mine .They have no idea why .
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wheels2
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Re: tie down?

Postby wheels2 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:10 pm

ooo this is a touchy subject among people lol, but the way I see it if it works for you and your horse dont change anything, I have seen horses trained by the most renown cowhorse/reining trainer (ex dave manning) being run in tie downs to help certain horses with balance in the turn (ex trina's mare ebony) I see it more so in the bigger horses that maybe have a harder time collecting themselves at full speed, this would also be a difference between the diciplines ex reining vs barrel racing, as you dont see very often a 16.3hh reining horse vs todays barrel horses. I personally dont train in a tie down all the time as I believe they should have to learn how to carry themselves but I will run my big guy in it as he is not the most handiest/balanced horse at a fast pace, if they dont need it I dont use it. JMO

beckers5
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Re: tie down?

Postby beckers5 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:33 pm

There is another forum on here about this subject and there was definately alot of debate back and forth about it if you care to read through all the posts but hopefully this doesn't turn into more arguing over whether a tie down is good or not... to answer the original question, if you feel like your horse is having issues in his run because of his head position then change something but some horses just naturally run carrying their heads high and if you are happy with how he is working then I would say leave him be. If you are going to change something then I agree the first thing to do is to go back to basics and teach collection correctly but if he has a good foundation and listens well but still needs some help then trying an aid such as a tiedown is a good option. Just be sure that it is adjusted correctly (not too short), personally I prefer a martingale or draw reins to a tiedown but that's just my own personal preference. Try to find someone who has some experience with the aid you choose and then decide for yourself if you think the result you are getting is what you want and if so then run with it :-D

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tj135
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Re: tie down?

Postby tj135 » Wed Nov 09, 2011 6:38 pm

I would try it, you never know - your horse might really like running with one. When properly used I think they can be excellent tools. If you're having success and happy with how things are right now though, I wouldn't change what's working.

There are plenty of successful barrel horses that run with tie downs. While agree tie downs (like anything) can be used improperly, to generalize it by saying it's only a crutch & a sign of poor training is extremely narrow minded IMO. :naughty:

TS
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Re: tie down?

Postby TS » Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:44 pm

I think if it works use it. As per Wheels post I ran Ebony in a tie down not because her head was high but because she liked to use it for balance. I did not use one at any other time. I have ran her without and she was OK but scrambled. A difference of a 17.6 on a regulation pattern with one and 18.0 without. I don't worry about others opinion on this, because she won and that's all I focused on. I agree try it and if it works keep using it; that will determine if it is good for you or not. Just a side note - I have never seen a Reiner run and turn in their pattern with the same speed as a barrel horse, so no real comparison - just had to give you a little dig Travis.;)

On the other hand my Futurity horse this year naturally moves with her nose out. If you watch her run and play in the field that is where she keeps it. A tie down in her case may have made her look prettier, but would have taken away her ability, so I use them when it works.

Sailor
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Re: tie down?

Postby Sailor » Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:04 pm

Thanks for that Trina :-)

I am just used to not being able to use it...same as Cowhorse guys etc.......So we have to spend the time to teach ours to hold their Position, and show them where that is, that allows them to use themselves to the best of their ability...and then be able to do it on their own.
Usually through repetition of pressure Release and Reward you can teach them where they need to be, and they soon realise that it is easier for them to do their job by getting to that position, and they will do it on their own.

It does take time though, and I think what happens is that some get on a deadline, and have to do what works.
Last edited by Sailor on Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

dblx
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Re: tie down?

Postby dblx » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:01 pm

take your horse back to the training pen until you get hois head down. You can try one but don,t make a habit out of it .Only use it til he keeps his head down . Maybe he balances himself that way . I hate them things
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