Amateur vs Pro

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turn n burn
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Postby turn n burn » Sat Jan 15, 2005 4:24 pm

sq, seeing that you are up on your stats, please tell me how many Pros actually entered rodeoa and won money and then went on to the BCRA finals?

sq
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Postby sq » Sat Jan 15, 2005 5:49 pm

I am still waiting on the BCRA to return my e-mail (I'm not certain, but I believe they only have part-time office workers in the winter). I need to know the number of pro card holders who bought BCRA memberships, how many rodeos each of them entered, which rodeos those were, and results. I can only access results from the website. And the number who attended the finals does not affect the number of regular season cheques that were by pros. An excellent point though! :D : I will pass on the information as soon as I have it (this will involve a fair bit of paperwork for the secretary, and may take some time). As far as barrel racing, I'm trying to gather up some videos or pictures to see which horses they were riding too. And hopefully I will be able to compare these results to other associations.

tdw
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Postby tdw » Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:01 pm

Let me start out by saying I am an amateur. Two years ago I took out my permit because my husband has his full card in the team roping and I couldn't stand watching anymore. Although I am for the most part a very quiet competitor, I learned a lot in that one year simply by watching and competing with some of Canada's best. Not only just watching barrel racing but in all the events there are members of the CPRA that just stand out as great competitors and contributors to the sport of rodeo. I at no time would bring down a whole group of people (pro rodeo athletes as a whole) just to have a spicy comeback.

SQ, as for your comment below I strongly disagree with your comment. There are so many great people in the sport of rodeo amateur and pro, and to bring them all down by saying "I would not want to be responsible for the medical state of athletes who divide thier time fairly evenly between fried foods and beer", I believe has went too far. I have endured, considered and put myself in your shoes on every comment that you have put forth; however, this comment just doesn't sit right with me.

I respect and look up to many/most of our Canadian Professional Rodeo Athletes and I would never compromise my respect for them ALL in spite of a few.

As stated earlier by SQ
"If I were a sponsoring company, I would not want to be responsible for the medical state of athletes who divide their time fairly evenly between fried foods and beer."

sq
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Postby sq » Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:13 pm

Absolutely, tdw, not all cowboys share the same diet. My apologies to those who do maintain their body in a healthy manner: this comment was not directed at you, but rather at certain (I wouldn't say few) representatives of the sport who promote rather than prevent injuries, which can be considered as one of the reasons why sponsors may not want to endorse cowboys/girls as athletes. My apologies for any inclusions, tdw! :)

It is also fortunate that if amateur association remain segregated from professional associations, that people can still have the opportunity of obtaining their permit and gaining experience in that fashion if they choose to do so.

And my most sincere thanks for considering my statement, even if you don't share them. I appreciate that!

turn n burn
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Postby turn n burn » Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:23 pm

sq, you must be pretty mad about this whole thing, because I am not sure that anyone would be going through all the trouble you are to prove a point. In the end I think you are going to be losing the battle anyways.

Like some one else said previous there was a Canadian Champion at the BCRA finals and didn't win, does this not say something. There are alot of amateur's out there that have the talent (barrel racing you need a horse) but for those people who don't want to go totally "pro" let them, who cares! The pro's that want to go to amateur rodeos, so what. If they are trying to make the CFR I'm sure there not worried about the next amatuer rodeo they are going to enter to make those finals. The pros everyone are worried about coming to amateur rodoes are the one that are or have made the CFR. Ummm, where would you rather go?
Keeo in mind to go to the CCA finals they have to go to atleast 20 rodeos (I think thats the right #) so if you are trying to make the CFR it would be hard to make the CCA finals. You would have to place at every rodeo and thats not likely to happen either.

Let me ask this, if a person who has been a pro, and even won the CFR, wanted to drop their Pro card, would we stop them? No, we can't. So what is the difference?

Rita
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amateurvspro

Postby Rita » Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:29 pm

sq last i heard this is a free country, whatever you choose thats up to the person writing out their cheque for membership,and they assoc.. Sounds to me like you need to get yourself on afew BODirectors. As for your views on beer drinking fried food eating cowboys/cowgirls I agree with tdw, you have so many comments on here and not many of them are very positive . Sounds like your under alot of pressure if I was you I would fry me up a burger and have a couple beers.

Rita

sq
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Postby sq » Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:46 pm

A free country doesn't imply that you can buy your way into whatever you want. I have served on many BODirectors for many different associations, but my resume isn't up for debate; the focus should be on the detriments of letting pros into amateur rodeos. I agree with you, tdw, I highly doubt that anything of what I say will be considered in an effective manner. This is usually the case when people are trying to push an improper concept through: do it fast and quietly so people do not notice until it is too late.

Is the issue that comments are not positive or that they have some degree of truth to them? I can surely identify other people who haven't said anything positive. It is the "beer guzzling mentality" that leads to poor judgement in the first place. I understand it is very difficult for people to understand and support views that may not support their own lifestyle, so there are no hard feelings towards those who do not understand, nor try to. It's not anger, it's frustration. When you feel your motivations are justified and the cause is good, you do everything possible to ensure fairness. It's no trouble at all to try to keep people informed of the truth.

By the way, anybody have any more info on the legal foundation of the issue?

As far as the canadian champ who entered and lost, he has also been to the finals and won. And those tough amateurs either don't have what it takes to go pro or choose not to, which is fine: at least they have a choice!

As far as positive comments, I think it would be GREAT to see people of all calibres try and encourage and support newcomers to the sport, and try to maintain an environment in which they can compete. :D

gilliegirl
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Postby gilliegirl » Sat Jan 15, 2005 7:49 pm

So far I have really enjoyed this thread, until now. "sq" has really done her homework in regards to this matter. Her posts have been informative, entertaining, and for the most part backed up by documented facts. Lets not turn this into a catty discussion, over one comment about beer and fried food! (Which I love !!!!) LOL
It is my understanding that this forum is for discussion, entertainment and hopefully some advice. We are each entitled to our own opinions, without feeling that we are being attacked for voicing them. So as for the last two posts directed at "sq", you may not agree with her or her ideas, but that doesnt mean that they need to be discredited.
I have no idea who "sq" is so I am in no way sticking up for her in a personal way, I just don't want to see such a great discussion turn into this.
I don't mean to sound self righteous, but too many times issues like these take on a personal tone. Lets embrace the chance to discuss issues like these in an open (anonymous if you like) positive manner.
Personally I am learning so much by looking at this through the eyes of others that I hope this goes on and on!!!!!! :D
I hope I have not offended anyone, that was never my intention.
Last edited by gilliegirl on Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Susie Turton.

Rita
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Postby Rita » Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:17 pm

didn' think I was being catty thought i just giving my personal views on the subject
Rita

Deana
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Postby Deana » Sat Jan 15, 2005 8:42 pm

Wow, SQ you definitely have a lot of time on your hands. I don't know why you'd be so bothered by this matter or really go to all the trouble getting your statistics. As for the Ropin and Rodeo, don't you get a paper when you are an amateur member or board of Director? I was under the impression that you did. I didn't think you were being catty Rita. I'm all for having a beer or two after a run, and maybe even having a burger. :wink: Since when was it anyone's business what one person ate, and then judged them for it :?: . I am also glad that some more people are speaking their mind about this subject. I also think that there has been a lot of negative comments made, I thought in barrel racing, we need to keep our mind clear from all this @#$%, and focus on being positive.

P.S. (SQ) "The Canadian Champ that went to the finals and lost", is my boyfriend, so careful with the facts that you keep pertaining to.

dirtdevil
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Postby dirtdevil » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:11 pm

I have to agree with girlie girl- ya wonder where barrel racers get that negative, bit---, whining reputation from. Can't we dicuss this like adults...probably not a good idea to mention names either - I think that is one of the rules of the forum...
Keep it fun & stay open minded... this is a great way to enlighten each other. :D

Missy
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Location: Alberta

Postby Missy » Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:17 pm

[/quote]I like the ideal of organizing the sport from the top down, but not at the expense of the bottom organizions. The idea of "saving the elite" maintains that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Not everyone can (nor should they) make a living at rodeo (not everyone is a Gretsky....) [/quote]

I thought that Wayne Gretsky played hockey.
woman who behave don't make history!!

sq
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Postby sq » Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:56 pm

In the interests of keeping the discussion open, I will ONCE AGAIN (people tend to overlook this part) APOLOGIZE if anyone was offended. I too know what it is like to eat friend food and drink beer, but I don't think that that behaviour makes an athlete. That is another discussion entirely, and probably not for this thread. And no worries, Rita, I was not offended (if that was even who you were referring to).

There is parallell that was drawn between Gretsky and rodeo. To clarify, not every rodeo competitor is like Gretsky is to hocky. I assumed the parallel would be understood as worded, but will endeavour to be more clear in the future to assist in better comprehension.

I love the idea of anonymity primarily because it does keep things impersonal, so that emphasis can be placed on what is being said and not who says it.

Back to facts: there seems to be a contradiction within the responses here. People want me to include more facts but do not seem to understand why I spend time and effort into researching them. I think both sides of this discussion like to know exactly what is happening, instead of relying on recollection and heresay. Research is done to hopefully give everyone the same basis and information from which to form their opinions. Keep in mind that my findings may very well disprove my argument, so my efforts are not necessarily in my best interests. If my time is spent (which is nobody's concern but my own) to get information for everyone to clarify this issue, then where is the problem?

Furthermore, I would LOVE IT if people would stop insinuating that facts or comments are not true. If something (as in a rodeo result) is wrong, then by all means correct me so that everyone may set straight. But please refrain from implying that the facts represented in my statements are false unless you are going to say which ones, why they are so, and proof to the contrary.

And no, in my experience the Ropin' and Rodeo dates that are printed (through no fault of the Ropin' and Rodeo staff) have caused me to miss entry dates in the past (changes are usually submitted too late). As a result I rely on information that I get directly from the association's office. So I didn't really need Ropin' and Rodeo, and opted to "save a tree" (I tend to be environmentally conscious). Plus, when I pay for a Ropin' and Rodeo 5 times over through every association and I only receive one in the mail, it irritates me. It keeps things simpler if I just abstain from getting one, for me anyway.

gilliegirl, it doesn't sound like you've offended anyone to me! (Nor has anybody for that manner).

Savanna
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Postby Savanna » Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:11 am

As far as im concerned the association has made up its mind and has accepted pros into it. Deana you make some good points, and sq if you have so much to say why dont you reveal a name, something your hiding?!?!....i dont believe in remaining anonymous......anyways, mom(Rita) i think that canada is a free country and that this topic should be open for more debate....i have never made a cheque at a pro rodeo yet still go because my family is involved and because i love traveling with my mom, dad, and older brother. Just because amatuer rodeos dont pay as much doesnt mean that "pro" calibre girls shouldn't be allowed to go to them, they dont hold you back from going to pro rodeos do they?? And as far as those that eat fried foods and drink beer, a big hi 5 from me, if you can be considered an athlete and play hard at the same time then you deserve every bit of recognition. I know of lots of rodeo "ATHLETES" that dont party hard and still get hurt, in the sport of rodeo its not if you get hurt, its when and how bad....and thats my 2 cents!

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admin
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Postby admin » Sun Jan 16, 2005 11:32 am

Hasn't this been an exciting topic!!!! Ya'll are getting so feisty on me :!:

Lets try and stay on topic please - if it isn't related to Amateur vs. Pro - start a new topic please.

Ladies - lets hug and make up! :oops: It is clear that no one has intentionally tried to hurt anyone.

Do remember when writing your post that facial expressions, sarcasm, tone of voice etc....don't come accross in your post. What you think you are saying might come accross differently as it doesn't have any tone as it would when you are speaking. I think that is how people take things the wrong way....


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