Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

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katfav
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby katfav » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:04 pm

Being attached to a horse....I dont know about it being a problem...I think sometimes it can be a good thing. Yes I might be attached to this horse but it's not JUST because she's a pretty face and bloodlines...like some may say...because I actually have another horse that has 0 bloodlines is half mustang x qh and had a super meanrough start (she bit a piece of my ear...16 stitches later, and it's fine) but I kept her because I was attached to her HUGE HEART. Just in case people try to twist this ...AGAIN...the horse that bit me was NOT the same horse that bucked me...2 TOTALLY different horses..different breeds, ages, and all...just so the story's straight!! Some might say ...oh a horse that bucks like that doesnt have a huge heart but thats bull. She is obviously trying to tell me something that I missed..thats why I am going to have x rays done, switch her off the oats as soon as I find something suitable, try a different cinch, and most importantly...be PATIENT with her. I really appreciate all of the people on here who gave me all of this GREAT information, things to try, and inspiring words. As for the ones who tell me to sell her, every person is entitles to their own opinion I guess until you actual know THIS particular horse, you can't really say that I should get rid of HER...other horses, maybe but she is something else. I wouldn't have went through all of the time to write this HUGE message BEGGING for people's help, advice, input, and tips ....or talk about how she bucked me off, if I was going to sell her...because, well, that would just be stupid (and wouldnt really encourage customers haha; I wrote this because I cared enough about her and want to look past it and move on and find a different approach to what I'm doing now because obviously something's not working....


As for her being "a bad horse", I wouldnt say shes a bad horse, I personally think she might have a bad attitude but it has been pointed out to me that thay may have been caused by me asking for too much too soon and without ENOUGH rewards. I am so quick to get (point out to her) on her when she does bad things, and I sometimes forget to reward her when she does "the right thing"...thinking from a horse's point of view...that would tick me off too. I am going to just go back to basics and really make sure her foundation is really strong, before I worry about introducing her back to the pattern. Last night I rode her and made sure to really pat her on the back and let her know when she did what I want and just from that, her riding, attitude, and security was noticable...more so than usual. I am also going to try and pick my battles...instead of having them out everytime she does one thing wrong. Like I said, just go back to foundation, even if that means doing lots of ground work, and working on body language and cues for the next few months with no pattern. I have the time (6days a week..I'm doing it already just maybe the training needs to be just that, instead of work work work when she obviously needs more training 1st), I know my horse, and know that she wouldnt be bucking at me just for the sake of being a cow, she has good intentions and is smart, just sensative. It was pointed out to me that I just need to remember that...remember why I ride her....because I LOVE riding, and I love training, and I love creating that bond and trust between me and the horse...not just to try and win a buckle, because all that comes later, as long as you have the trust. A really good friend reminded me all this yesterday and I am really gonna hang on to it and focus on how I can get her to where I want her and be patient. So to all of you who tell me to sell her, I am sure you are just looking out for my well being (which I do appreciate), but until you are in my shoes with this horse and see how much she can offer, I want to remind you of what someone reminded me....sometimes the most difficult horses have the MOST to give and unless you stick it out and believe in them, you'll never find out just how much they could have done for you.
Last edited by katfav on Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

randa
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby randa » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:00 pm

Well, I know my horse that bucked me off was "trying to tell" me something....and I listened!! He now has a new owner. LOL

I am just kidding I just had to joke around a little. 8o)

Katfav, good response and good luck with your horse. You sound like you are going to put the work in that is needed to make her a better, safer horse to ride. Even though I don't like to ride ones that buck I do seem to find ones that need some fixing so I do know where you are coming from. But I have also learned over the years (and many problem horses later) to pick my battles and to know when it is a lost cause-in most cases the problems are man/woman made and we have to go back to basics.


I am not discouraging you just reminding you that you need to set small goals for you guys to reach together, when you are no longer meeting those goals you will know you have done all you can do- you have either suceeded with her or it is time to move on. :-D
You can only have one thought at a time, will it be positive or negative?

am
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby am » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:03 pm

Good Luck Really hope for your sake and hers you have the experience needed to enable you to get this horse to be safe and go on to have a bright future. If you don't have alot of experience I would urge you to get professional help, remember your safety should be your first concern!!

whatchaupta
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby whatchaupta » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:35 pm

I think maybe the fact that you have asked for advice on this add shows you don't have a lot of faith in your "trainer". The idea of getting on right away after lunging for "a minute or so" shows he or she is not the most patient person. This not the quality I look for in a barrel horse trainer. The breeding of the horse probably doesn't have a ton to do with your problems. You mention the horse doesn't work off its back end at times? When working with your prospect how many hours are spent on exercises and how many on the pattern. I find so many people who pattern 90% of the time when they should be taking there "broke" horse to the pattern maybe 10% of the time and doing strengthening and various other execises to get contol of all four quarters of their horse. It usually takes a year or two to get a horse "running" a pattern after it is broke. If you haven't ran fast before it will take you that long to be consistant enough with being in the middle of your horse and not rushing them.

The other thing with posting this add makes it look like your ready to take advice from anyone and everyone.Watch out for this.Everyone has an opinion whether we are right or not. I suggest if you want to be good at barrel racing find someone to help that is at the top of their field that finishes their own horses and is a cosistant winner. This probably meens they are a consistant rider that has seen what you are going through. Taking advise from people who aren't at the top of there game will get you as far as they have gone and no farther. Even taking advice from people who don't know the entire story as I'm sure there is more to this than your opinion of what happened.It sure would be a lot easier if your horse could tell their side.Lol.

Remmember to stay patient. A nice slow easy pattern with good turns may be slow, but a fast pattern that has bad turns and hips and sholders going everywhere will get you nowhere. Sounds like your willing to put the time in so make sure the time your putting in is going to get you the results you are looking for. Be happy if your are high loping a pattern by the end of the year. It will probably take this long or longer to get the work done from where your at now. Hopefully when your finished the horse is sound and can produce the results you want.Sounds like a well bred "prospect".

Good luck

pete
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby pete » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:21 pm

cut your losses get rid of it before you get hurt and can't ride at all there are to many good horses out there an old friend told me long a go it costs just as much to feed a good one as it does a shitter

katfav
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby katfav » Sun Jan 25, 2009 4:10 pm

Thanks for the advice pete...thats a great opinion and all but if you read the various messages...I've made it clear that I am not looking for excuses to sell her, I am looking for suggestions and helpful ideas I can pick from in order to be successful in communicating/training her.

Also "whatchaupta" you are totally right that a horse should not be patterned tons and it is more about the everyday training you do with them, getting them to work off all the parts. Also, I was the one who was impatient in not lunging the horse (not the trainer) "longer than a minute or so" before I even brought the horse into the arena she was in and then she got on. Also, because this horse had never ever bucked before(or so the previous owner claimed), when she got on, we did not then see it as a threat. Since then, I do lunge her much longer than a minute. She is really a great trainer and has taught me A LOT about getting a horse to work all areas of their body. She also has a PROVEN record from training her own horses, which all perform VERY well, whether it be on barrels or just in general so I would trust her judgement and training techniques over many other people. She is also very realistic in setting achievable goals and being patient with the horse while doing it. I was the one who was impatient in wanting to take her to a pattern and have now realize just how much work it's going to take to....first...get the horse's trust back (since I have put a lot on her, and expected faster results...till now), then get both me and the horse to where we need to be. This is now a long(er) term plan...one that will hopefully pay off in the end. We're now back to the basics and as you said just getting her very broke OFF the pattern before I even go back and think about loping.

Also, I dont think that by postine this message it's making me look like I'm willing to accept anyone's opinion because Iam aware that everyone on here who responds to my post are not all experts, however, it is still nice to hear the WIDE variety of responses so that I can pick bits and pieces of advice that may work best for this specific horse's style of training. Anything helps and it's nice to hear what works for different people...

Kopes18
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby Kopes18 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:40 pm

Definately go through the Clinton Anderson DVD's that you have. To get her totally BROKE you will get amazing results if you use these videos as a guide. Good luck and don't give up. 8o)

puthue
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby puthue » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:52 pm

Hi. I am sorry if this sounds stupid, but have you had her teeth checked lately? And I know a lot of people don't believe in this, but don't rule out having someone that does Reiki look at her. It could be something as simple as her liver being out? I have a friend that can usually help you right over the phone, if you are interested, let me know, I can get you in touch. Iknow how you feel, you don't want to give up on soooo much potential!

Copper
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby Copper » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:53 pm

I have a mare that I barrel race on and she bucks when she comes into heat. Her heat cycle is very subtle though and can sometimes be difficult to detect unless she is in with geldings. She does give me signs though when I am riding her, she is short tempered, lazy and stiff to ride. It doesn't take much to push her to start bucking and you can over and under her and she only goes higher and harder but she pulls up rather easy. So my advice to you is to find out if your mare is for sure in heat when this happens and if she is really pissy you might want to try acupuncture, but for my mare I just let her alone for a week so however long it takes her and we go right back to work and she is as good as gold. I don't mind I just think what it would be like to get kicked in the gut when you have cramps:)

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whoahorse
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby whoahorse » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:21 pm

Missy wrote:I think the biggest problem we have as horse owners is getting "attatched". A very wise old man told me one time that if we spent as much time on the good ones as we spend "trying" to make a bad one into a good one, we would all ride winners every time we saddled up. I think he is a very smart man.


Wow, what great post. That is the kind of quote that really makes a person think!

Thanks for sharing Missy! 8o)
You aren't wealthy until you have something money can't buy. Garth Brooks

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whoahorse
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby whoahorse » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:22 pm

randa wrote:Well, I know my horse that bucked me off was "trying to tell" me something....and I listened!! He now has a new owner. LOL


Randa, you should put that on a Tshirt. LOL! :mrgreen:
You aren't wealthy until you have something money can't buy. Garth Brooks

pete
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby pete » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:52 pm

i think missy's quote is hitting it right on the head once you spend a summer not being able to ride or maybe never ride again it will be to late

LLS
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby LLS » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:00 pm

Hello,

I never respond to any of these things but I like to read.... This horse is spoiled. I have trained all sorts of horses and I actually have one just like this. She is rank. I`ve never seen anything like it in 20 yrs of training and being around horses, wild or tame. She is a mare. She has taken every single one of my tricks in the book and taken them hard. Last time I rode her was October and it took one month of straight hell to get her thru rodeo psycho nonsense. The worst part is, come spring I`ll probably have to do it all over again. If this is the case, I`ll cut my loses. A horse like this is dangerous because it is like they are waiting for the moment... I have not seen your horse, but it sounds like mine. I am very experienced in training and actually don`t have problems with any horses that buck if they are started properly... I did not start this mare... but she has learned a lot about getting her way since she was two. She is honest and normal one minute, and then the next she unleashes and its dirty. I already have made the decision to keep her myself because I can handle her or else she is going to be shipped down the road and not to a riding home if you know what I mean.... This is a mare with huge talent and looks as well, and I know I am one of the only people who would bring her to the finish line... but if she was in the hands of someone else, they probably would have been killed, or been lucky enough to get just hurt. Point is,,, your mare has your number... and by the sounds of the woman who said she was trying to hurt you bad and almost kicked you... it does not sound good. I think it depends on your riding ability... jockey, or trainer... and even myself... very few horses will make me back off, but unfortunately, once a horse is spoiled like this,,, you almost have to make them feel like they have lost everything and begin a new start.... it is about respect... whichever way you choose to get it. And, on this note,,, I`ve hung on to so many horses to give them that chance because there was something there... needless to say, I have lots of broken bones in bad places and in the end the horse ended up where they were originally headed to.... BUT, I will say, if something is wrong physically, things are a much different story... without knowing the horses history and background I think everyone here can only guess....

miss_brook

Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby miss_brook » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:13 pm

Gosh I have been sitting here biting my tongue the whole time too. You said it right "LLS "....this mare has your number...bottom line!!! As a trainer myself, I recommend you look past her beauty and papers and realize this. I mean this with NO disrespect to you...just as a concerned fellow barrel racer.

If its any consolation....we paid $8500 for a two year old a few years ago with a 30 day start on her. We went on to put two years of blood, sweat, tears and PAIN into this high powered mare only to breed her as a 4 yr old and turn her out never to be saddled since. Now as a trainer, this was humiliating for me when I had to tell the previous owner I couldn't make a decent horse out of her when there was such high hopes for her and trust in me to do this. This mares full brother was a $50,000 winner at the Stampede and a CFR qualifier so I'm sorry but breeding isn't everything, sometimes there's just a glich that papers or looks can't fix. It sucks esp when who's to say another trainer maybe could have done something with her!!! That's another thing too...relationships with our horses are alot like with humans...there has to be a chemistry there as well to make it work.

mcquarterhorses
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Re: Problems with Barrel Horse Bucking...any ideas?

Postby mcquarterhorses » Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:06 am

we have a gelding that will also buck some. last year we put the work to him and as long as we are using him hard he is great, give him some time of and i usually pony him the first ride out. He is very well trained so at least when he bucks you can pull him out of it. We have decided to let him go only because we don't have the time to ride him as much as he needs. Like i said the more work (and i don't mean arena riding) the better he was. Sometimes they also just need a job and a great job is to put a cow in front of them, he has never offered to buck with us as long as he is after the steer. don't know if you have that option, but i would recomend sender her to someone that can put the miles on her. We have found they come back with a different attitude towards work.
hope this helps :)


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